Seven years is a long, long time. Much has happened since 2002. Everything has changed, and the world is now a different place to the way it used to be. All aspects of life, be they on a global, local, or personal level are in a state of flux, unprecedented for most us alive today.
But imagine if you will, how you would feel if you’d spent, or rather lost, those seven years of your life in captivity. That for the last four years of your detention you’d wasted away in a 6ft x 8ft cell, with a little daily “exercise” outdoors in a cage only slightly larger than that cell.
Welcome to Guantanamo Bay. The horrors of the detention centre are already well documented, and more will no doubt come out in the coming years. There are frightening similarities between it and the Nazi concentration camps or Soviet gulag. Worrying further is the indifference with which so many people seem to view it, and its purpose.
Would they consider it acceptable if it were they, a relative, a friend, or an associate from their local KKK BNP lodge, who were hauled from one country to the next under the name of extraordinary rendition? And what if they were housed in conditions unfit for boarding dogs in? Or, perhaps if they were cut-off from contact with the outside world? Tortured? Treated like animals in a zoo? Denied a fair trial? Forced to sit for hours on end in the “Guantanamo Position” – on knees, head down, arms locked behind back?
Those who fought and died opposing Hitler and his regime must be turning in their graves at what has become of the supposed democracies they defended.
Alleged dirty bomb plotter, and British resident Binyam Mohamed did spend the last seven years of his life in captivity, four of which were at Guantanamo. He was arrested in Pakistan in 2002, accused of planning the detonation of a dirty bomb on American soil.
Now thirty, Mr Mohamed, an Ethiopian citizen who moved to the UK at the age of fifteen, claims that he was tortured during his seven year ordeal, and that he only confessed to terrorist charges under duress. He also alleges that the Security Service (MI5) and/or the Secret Service (MI6) were complicit in his abuse.
Whether he’s guilty or innocent of the charges that were made against him is anyone’s guess. The concerning question surrounds our intelligence services, and the extent of their involvement in cases like these. Although the alleged dirty bomb plotter makes no direct allegations that British Intelligence Officers actually tortured him, their being named as accomplices offers further alarming evidence that the UK is hurtling down the slippery slope of police state tactics. Of course, all of this assumes that Mr Mohamed is actually telling the truth – either way he becomes a martyr.
Guantanamo, like many other anti-terror measures breeds more terrorists. More terrorists mean more anti-terror measures. More control, more authority. Perhaps that’s the point….?
I’ve long held the opinion that government deliberately creates and perpetuates a climate of fear in order to control potential unrest in the electorate. It makes people afraid of change and insinuates the idea that the government are ‘protecting’ them from outside evils. America does it best, but Britain isn’t far behind.
I disagree with anonymous. I know that our government is too bureaucratic to coordinate any kind of large scale conspiracy. The fact is that there are many things threatening america; dissension, terrorism, and other oppressive governments. I agree however that torture has been and always will be wrong. I am against the interrogation tactics that our government has been allowing to be performed on terrorists. I do not believe however that non-american citizens (especially those who are guilty of acts of terrorism) should be given a “fair trial”. How would one assemble a jury for a potential terrorist’s trial? Should his jury be made of people from his home town? Perhaps an international jury of people who do not even understand his language? No. We are in a WAR ON TERROR, and the sad fact is that it will not stop any time soon, but in order to protect america, these people must be treated like prisoners of war.
Who decides if someone is guilty of being a terrorist, though, John? Everyone is a potential terrorist, and although a minority are unarguably more likely to be one than most, it shouldn’t mean that they’re stripped of rights to a fair hearing.
A trial in which a jury is selected from a variety of backgrounds offers someone the chance to defend themselves in as unprejudiced a fashion as possible. A panel of judges is even better than no trial at all. The problem is that every potential terrorist who’s locked up without trial will breed a thousand more terrorists.
I agree that Americans need to ‘Protect America’ but the question is from whom? Themselves?
who fcking cares if it is torture?
these bastards flew planes into buildings with the intent to cause mass killings
fck em all
The government did not “deliberately create” the fear that we Americans felt when the planes took down the towers on 9/11, those were terrorists.
Terroristic acts against the United States should not be tolerated. If a group or an individual shows such a threat, they should be treated as a threat against our country. If you were a threat against their country, do you think they would act peacefully? No. Neither should we.
We should act like the strong nation we are. Not your “give peace a chance” hippy way of reasoning with them, because they don’t understand reasoning.
STRIKE BACK BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
From people like you Robert and anonymous and all those who think you can reason with people who are willing to die for their cause. In Vietnam they used children for their cause. Now they use themselves for their cause. The real question is are you man enough to die for your country? If not you have no voice in the discussion. Could you walk up to someone and put a bullet in his or her head? If not you have no seat at the table of reality. Keep your idealistic thoughts and values to yourself and God help your families because you never would.
What stupid remarks some people make. It makes me sick to think of how we legalized a form of torture. These gung-ho fools who condone it haven’t got a brain cell between them. We’re no better than a country like Algeria for allowing despicable practices like water-boarding and detaining people indefinitely without convicting them of anything.
How dare you bring “God” into it BF. As if you’re a Christian. Yours and JB’s warmongering attitude is something we should be ashamed of not proud of. You both suffer from small dog syndrome. You’re so scared of the world around you that you want to fight “BACK BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!” Stop being such pathetic cowards. Hiding behind a bigger gun than your enemy’s doesn’t make you brave it just makes you bullies.
http://www.playboy.com/articles/lab-rat-waterboarding/index.html
JB and BF, how on earth are you inferring from what I’ve said about locking people up without trial, and also torturing them that I advocate ‘reasoning’ with terrorists? I’ve not said anything at all about reasoning with them or giving peace a chance, nor have I suggested a hippy stance be taken towards them?
The people in question aren’t convicted terrorists. If there were so much evidence against them, then why not try them in a court and slam them up on the guilty verdict they’d inevitably receive if that evidence were so compelling? I’d have no sympathy at all for them if they were given a fair trial and found guilty, but locking people up and throwing away the key just on the basis that they might be terrorists is ludicrous.
As far as the torture aspect of it goes, it never has been an effective way of interrogation and never will be. People who are susceptible to it will say anything if they think it’ll put an end to the discomfort, but the ones who are actually likely to know important information are also likely to be so heavily indoctrinated into their beliefs that they’ll never yield anything worthwhile. History is littered with failed regimes that have made use of torture. It’s also littered with countless examples of people who withstood it to the point of death.
BF: ‘The real question is are you man enough to die for your country?’. . . ‘Could you walk up to someone and put a bullet in his or her head?’
On the former, yes, I would hope so, but it would only be if the country needed to defend itself. On the latter, how can anyone answer that? The same people who would jump up brandishing a Colt-45 in one hand whilst waving a cocktail stick with a small triangular image of the Stars and Stripes on top of it in the other hand, are invariably the same ones who would flee to the back of the line when any action starts. Saying yes or no would be meaningless.
Helena, it sounds like you would rather grab your ankles and let these terrorists have their way. You sound like a gutless liberal that would rather side with people that would just love the chance to kill you. It’s amazing to me that there are people like you actually sympathize with terrorists and would rather give them rights that U.S. citizens have. If you feel this way, why don’t you move your dumb ass to the middle east and find out the hard way how they really treat women. As for the rest of us, we’ll stay here and protect this county til our last breath; torture or not
Not the planes thing again. Puh-lease!!
To defeat a terrorist, you must become a terrorist? Some one hurt us, so we turn a blind eye to ethics and humanity. Ultimaltly turning to tactics that our enimies would instill. How do we know that thats not the very thing terroist were trying to do all along, take away americas credibility. Well now america looks even worse in the eyes of the rest of the world, which seems to despise us enough already. Did torturing these people help us catch Osama, or even bring us closer to ending an already droning war? And can’t the terroist a-holes argue that we are terroist ourselves, when we start a war in one country just to turn to another and start attacking? Im not saying that im sideing with terroist or that i sympathise for them. I don’t, f-em, there scum. But that dosent mean we should can just do what ever we want. Nations don’t set down guidlines just so they can be broken whenever covenient. we can gain nothing in becoming what we hate. God bless all who served for america, and lets hope this war dosent last for years and years, claming the lives of more americans.
The world is a unforgivably ugly place. All nations, all religions, and all people are guilty of creating the environment that has allowed the climate of fear, anger, and suspicion of each other to foster and grow. As a result we are now at war, with each other as much as ourselves. We as Americans want to hold onto the values that we have, the same values that others who have less financial wealth, spiritual wealth, and moral justice wish to see us stripped of. Their rallying call is the desire for an Islamist state, or rather the perverted interpretation of what is at its heart a beautiful and peaceful religion. Those in the US and abroad who think that we can defeat this new extreme Islam are likely very, very wrong. I wish that they were right, but we have tried to reason with them and we have failed. The free world is left with only one choice, to prepare for a very long drawn out and ultimately bloody battle. There will be a time for polite debate in the halls of governments, but not until the militancy that governs the heart of Islamist terrorists is cut out and crushed. Now is the time for all people who value the safety of our world, and all its inhabitants to stand together and say no more.
Its easy for all of us to say that any form of physical punishment should be avoided on potential terrorist suspects…. but how about if it was you’re own family member or friends who lost their lives by 9/11? You would probably have great difficulty in trying to justify a “nice” treatment of these people.
None of the torture techniques permanently harm the individual. When American lives are at the stake, it is better to error on the side of over punishment, than to under.
One thing is for certain: is is definitely does not help the world fight terrorism if terrorists do not have any sense of fear of sever punishment for their acts of crime. Like a parent that spares the rod on their child for fear of being blamed of “child abuse”, Americans risk creating an environment which encourages -or at least does not discourage immoral acts if and when they fail to properly punish perpetrators appropriate for their crimes.
Be wary that their is an obvious incentive for the current Presidential Cabinet to demonize their predecessors policies and decisions. It is prudent to be aware of these things because with every election, it happens.
And on the most important note: am I the only one who believes that currently we have other, much larger issues that need to be discussed and dealt with here or am I missing something?
I hate all of you people. Why do any of you think you know what you are talking about. Do you think Obama did a 180 on Iraq because he felt like it? He did it because he became privy to information he did not have prior and said “FUCK, these people are sicko’s. I can’t pull out now” Until you have all the facts, shut the fuck up.
im a liberal and im so sick of you neo con shit talkers always tryin to be so bad ass when really your just a bunch of scared bigoted intolerant sheep
i belive u should torture terroists however the problem that no one is bringing up is that most of these men WERENT terroists…. thats where i take issue
go ahead justify it by trying to be all tough and gung ho but the simple fact is that most of you on here are just internet tough guys that would be reduced to tears if you ever had to defend your country or hell even took a tour abu ghraib circa 2004
terrorism is older then 9/11/2001.. no one has ever figured out how to eliminate it so shut the fuck up about how were supposed to handle it…
this is yet another thing bush and co did to put u at more risk and generate more anti american sentiment and probobly the next generation of terrorists are being created right now thanks to the war in iraq… not to mention , why is it that all these new “interrigation techniques” have yet to give us any info to help bring bin laden to justice??
America was last attacked on 9/11/01……..Someone must be an ignorant fool to think that US interrogation techniques have not been successful in preventing another attack.
When you become a victim of a terror attack on US soil maybe your family members can continue your position of appeasement at your funeral.
Tell me, if life in guantanamo bay is so horrific compared to any other prison in the world, why is it that only now, under the Obama regime, that the prisoners are calling Al Jazeera to tell them how bad life is, and how mean the americans are? Reporters that frequent Guantanamo Bay have said that the live quarters there are far more nice than any U.S. prison. Why is it that noone cries to have all of our U.S. criminals released?
Why is it so far fetched to think that we may need to expend the life of one (or the few) to save the many? Yes, it is a terrible thing to think that we have to toture to gain intellegence, but if it save the lives of hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, then i think that the end justifies the means. Since 2002 there have been NO attacks on U.S. soil, but if you do your research, there have been plenty of thwarted attempts. These people do not want to play nice with us. They want to see us completely and utterly eradicated! Why is it that you Liberals out there can’t see this?!?!
Hate to disappoint you fmrarmyofcr but you’ve just shown your own ignorance. Most of our intel is down to wire taps, reading emails and texts, general electronic eavesdropping and tipoffs. Interrogation techniques such as wb-ing have hardly played any part in protecting us. We’ve turned away that many “potential” terrorists at the borders that we’ve been lucky up to now about real terrorists getting in.
Iraq, gtmo and torture have put us at more of a risk from them than ever before. We’ve alienated former allies and pushed swathes of moderate Muslims into radicalization. That’s not to mention the long term damage we’ve done to the economy. The cretins who support the measures that Bush took should remember that all the countries we used to export to are now going elsewhere for their goods. When they’re looking for suppliers, business partners and companies to offer industrial contracts to then they won’t be looking to us because the brand name USA is now a dirty word. Give yourselves a pat on the back.
John, JB, and everyone else who believes there is a CAPSLOCK WAR ON TERROR, I suggest you get a DVD of “The Power of Nightmares”, a documentary film which explores this modern myth.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3970901.stm
Or you can go on lapping up the crap spewed by Bush, Fox News, et al.
I’ve lived in London through numerous terrorist bombings by the IRA (assisted by funding from Americans) over several decades. The view taken by the vast majority of Londoners was that terrorists are a bunch of f**king idiots, and they weren’t going to stop us from going about our business. And after a bombing we’d just, you know, carry on. In short, a noticeable absence of the STRIKE BACK BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY attitude, perhaps because such a response is just as idiotic as the terrorists.
No-one told us we were meant to be afraid.
Waterboarding light, waterboarding up dated, a person is held upside down and his/her head is put into the toilrt bowl and the toilest is flushed over and over, you get the picture.
I guess everyone that has commented about how awful we are for allowing water boarding, has detached them selves so far from reality that in between sliding down lollipop falls they some how found the time to post what I see as an attack against anyone who has lost loved ones be it direct relations or are own brothers and sisters who fight for your freedoms has everyone forgot about how those mass murderer’s captured noncombatants and forced them to kneel in front of a camera drugged and dazed and have there head slowly sliced off while they post it on the internet for everyone to see!? …So for everyone here that does not agree with this method of extracting information that could save thousands of lives not just Americans should walk out in front of moving traffic. because, I’m sure those people that watched there father/husband slowly get there head separated from there bodies would be glad to hold the next bucket of water over some mass murderer face.
America cannot even beat the taliban that fight on horses with broken and old weapons! They wage war on islam then elect a muslim president! Stupid!
I went back and read several of the previous comments on this blog, and i must say that some peoples misunderstanding of our constitution astounds me. Robert Bonnett, you say that we locked these terrorists up without a fair trial? You are right, but these terrorists are not guaranteed a right to a fair trial. They are not U.S. citizens. They do not fight by Geneva convention rules, and i can promise you, they wouldn’t even think about giving you a fair trial.
I hope everyone understands that the only reason we focus on radical Muslims is because they are now at the fore-front of the situation. Terrorists come in all forms and fashions. I am not a racist or biggot in any way. I know that there have been white, male Americans who have also been terrorists. They should be punished as well. As a post script to that last comment, i do not condone torture as a means of punishment. But, if we have reasonable intelligence that suggests a person has knowledge of an impending attack, other terrorists cells, or in a miracle case the location of Osama Bin Laden (i say that only because liberals always want to know why we haven’t found him yet), then, and only then, do i think toture is a fair route to take.
As a final note, i would like to address the last anonymous comment. You are a coward. Why do you think, even for a minute, that ANYONE should just roll over and take it when they’ve been attacked? Do you not have respect for the lives affected by those IRA bombings? Do you not have respect for your own country? Whatever happened to the British quote “For queen (king) and country!” Any Londoner, or any other person in the entire world, who takes the same stance as you will forever be labeled a coward!
not tryin to aggravate anyone, but who really thinks that a war on an idea will ever be won? I mean really? “war on terror”… it kinda sounds like “war on confusion”…
makes no sense, to me. someone will always think of using fear to control and manipulate, just like someone will always be confused about why they use those techniques… idk just a thought.
Waterboarding is non-lethal. Non-permanent physical harm or damage. It only “appears” like your gonna drown. If in fact it makes you uncomfortable…oh well. I’m ok with it if the information saves lives. Sleep deprivation….too bad. And yes..Advanced interogation techniques work…or torture..if you will…only bad interogations and torture get bad results…the “experts” I’m sure, have this stuff down pat. And we , Americans, are on the record as not using “nail pulling” or “hand smashing ” techniques that other countries use. All legal stuff. Amazing only those who have no interest in terrorism…those, “apparently lucky few” not affected, are able to judge this stuff as badness. I want you all to know(except those who already know) that these extreme individuals, or terrorists, would kill you and your family and feel proud to do so with NO regret whatsoever…don’t believe me…schedule a family trip to Iraq…go see the sites…
Some of these Americans have no idea what they’re talking about. I lived through the troubles in Northern Ireland and still live here now. I don’t know a single person who went through that hell without knowing someone who lost a friend or relative. But despite the hatred we still managed to achieve peace and it wasn’t by starting wars. Thank heavens most people don’t share your mentality.
To all of you that keep talking about how the terrorists would happily butcher us and our families; how they wouldn’t treat us fairly; do you think that people don’t know that? We’re not naive idiots who think that terrorists would treat us humanely. Justifying your actions on the grounds that your “enemy” does it so you should too is the most pathetic attitude I’ve ever heard.
Before you come out with more of your ignorant comments about terrorists, take a look at what you yourselves were turning a blind eye to – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stm
Oh, please, would you look at some of these neocons. Water boarding is a torture technique that goes as far back as the Spanish Inquisition. Do you think they used it because it was nice. The only people who claim it saves lives and does no lasting harm are from the same administration that did nothing but lie to us. They only reclassified it as non-torture so they could try and get away with doing it. Torture is a violation of international law which is why the UN are demanding that we prosecute the CIA interrogators who did it. We’re bound by the UN Convention against Torture whether some of you like it or not.
We invaded Iraq so Bush junior could finish off what Bush senior didn’t. There was never any threat from the Iraqis but because of our actions thousands of our troops have died along with over a hundred thousand innocent Iraqi civilians who had no involvement with terrorism.
We tried to flex our military might and ended up looking like pussies in front of the world. We began wars we can never win and created millions more terrorists than we’ve defeated. We broke that many international laws that we’ve lost all credibility as the moral crusaders some of you make us out to be. All we’ve achieved from our war on terror is to lose most of our influence, open ourselves up to claims of war crimes and show the world that we’re scared.
Ireland still suffers from high unemployment because commerce was affected by the IRA. If we have terrorist strikes on this country again, especially sustained attacks, the financial problems that we are experiencing now will look like nothing. We will simply be reduced to a 3rd world country and I guarantee that the UN and the world will not be so quick to send food shipments to our shores. I hope you have read up on how to plant, hunt, fish and grow food. Everybody is civilized as long as they are fat and happy.
I would suggest to the people who think we can talk to extremist and work it out… round up all your best friends, plan a trip to sit down and talk to the terrorists in their basements and caves where they hide from the Special Military Opertions units of the world. Terrorists understand 1 language… Peace through superior firepower!!! It scares me that we have a group of people in this country that would just roll over in the face of a foreign invader. I heard France might be looking for more citizens, seems like a perfect fit for you! Grow a pair and be willing to stand up for this great country that so many have fought and died to defend!
“Ireland still suffers from high unemployment because commerce was affected by the IRA.”
Wrong. Unemployment here declined rapidly after most of the violence stopped. So much that it fell below the UK average.
“I would suggest to the people who think we can talk to extremist and work it out…”
It’s down to mine and the Republic’s governments sitting down with extremists from both sides that we now have peace. It’s because of give and take on both sides that I no longer live in militarised hellhole but somewhere that’s finally prospering. And please don’t think for one minute that the paramilitaries here were any less determined than al-qaeda.
“Terrorists understand 1 language… Peace through superior firepower!!!”
Exactly what has America’s superior firepower achieved? Someone’s already mentioned your superior firepower taking on the horse riding Taliban. They’re fighting with poor weaponry so why have they managed to grow in number, spread and now have control of parts of Pakistan. Why has superior firepower allowed them to get within 60miles from the capital of a nuclear state? Why has your superior firepower not managed to find Osama Bin Laden? Why has superior firepower allowed al-qaeda to grow not shrink?
“Grow a pair…”
Whenever I hear people say that I know they haven’t got a pair of their own. People here didn’t shit their pants and live in fear like some Americans seem to have done. We didn’t alter the way we lived just because of terror threats. We were living with terrorism long before America even knew the meaning of it. The purpose of terrorism is to terrorise people into changing the way they live and think. Americans fell for it and let al-qaeda terrorise them into doing exactly what they wanted you to. Your stupid war has made them more powerful with more supporters than ever before. While you were doing your John Wayne impressions the EU overtook you to become the world’s biggest economy. Your losing your power. The more you keep trying to fight your way out of the shit with your superior firepower the quicker you’re going to lose it.